The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which framed the Constitution of USA Volume II Part 41

The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which framed the Constitution of USA Volume II Part 41

"The Legislature shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the U. States; and nothing in this const.i.tution contained, shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims either of the U. S. or of any particular State."--The postponem^t ag^d to nem. con.

M^r L. Martin moved to amend the proposition of M^r Gov^r Morris by adding--"But all such claims may be examined into & decided upon by the supreme Court of the U. States."

M^r Gov^r Morris. this is unnecessary, as all suits to which the U. S.

are parties, are already to be decided by the Supreme Court.

M^r L. Martin. it is proper in order to remove all doubts on this point.

Question on M^r L. Martin's amendatory motion

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t no. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. no. M^d ay.

V^a no.--States not farther called the negatives being sufficient & the point given up.

The Motion of M^r Gov^r Morris was then agreed to, M^d alone dissenting.

Art: XVIII being taken up,--the word "foreign" was struck out nem: con: as superfluous, being implied in the term "invasion."

M^r d.i.c.kinson moved to strike out "on the application of its Legislature, against." He thought it of essential importance to the tranquility of the U. S. that they should in all cases suppress domestic violence, which may proceed from the State Legislature itself, or from disputes between the two branches where such exist.

M^r Dayton mentioned the Conduct of Rho: Island as shewing the necessity of giving lat.i.tude to the power of the U. S. on this subject.

On the question

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t no. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d no.

V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

On a question for striking out "domestic violence" and insert^g "insurrections--" It pa.s.sed in the negative.

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t no. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. no. M^d no.

V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

M^r d.i.c.kinson moved to insert the words, "or Executive" after the words "application of its Legislature."--The occasion itself he remarked might hinder the Legislature from meeting.

On this question

N. H. ay. Mas. no. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d div^d.

V^a no. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

M^r L. Martin moved to subjoin to the last amendment the words "in the recess of the Legislature." On which question

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t no. P^a no. Del. no. M^d ay. V^a no.

N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

On Question on the last clause as amended

N. H. ay. Mas. ay. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. no. M^d no.

V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

Art: XIX taken up.

M^r Gov^r Morris suggested that the Legislature should be left at liberty to call a Convention, whenever they please.

The Art: was agreed to nem: con:

Art: XX. taken up.--"or affirmation" was added after "oath."

M^r Pinkney moved to add to the Art:--"but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the authority of the U. States."

M^r Sherman thought it unnecessary, the prevailing liberality being a sufficient security ag^{st} such tests.

M^r Gov^r Morris & Gen^l Pinkney approved the motion.

The motion was agreed to nem: con: and then the whole Article; N. C.

only no--and M^d divided.

Art: XXI. taken up, viz: "The ratifications of the Conventions of ---- States shall be sufficient for organizing this Const.i.tution."

M^r Wilson proposed to fill the blank with "seven" that being a majority of the whole number & sufficient for the commencement of the plan.

M^r Carrol moved to postpone the article in order to take up the Report of the Committee of Eleven (see Tuesday Aug^{st} 28)--and on the question

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t no. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. ay. M^d ay.

V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

M^r Gov^r Morris thought the blank ought to be filled in a twofold way, so as to provide for the event of the ratifying States being contiguous which would render a smaller number sufficient, and the event of their being dispersed, which w^d require a greater number for the introduction of the Government.

M^r Sherman observed that the States being now confederated by articles which require unanimity in changes, he thought the ratification in this case of ten States at least ought to be made necessary.

M^r Randolph was for filling the blank with "nine" that being a respectable majority of the whole, and being a number made familiar by the const.i.tution of the existing Congress.

M^r Wilson mentioned "eight" as preferable.

M^r d.i.c.kinson asked whether the concurrence of Congress is to be essential to the establishment of the system, whether the refusing States in the Confederacy could be deserted--and whether Congress could concur in contravening the system under which they acted?

M^r Madison, remarked that if the blank should be filled with "seven"

"eight," or "nine," the Const.i.tution as it stands might be put in force over the whole body of the people, tho' less than a majority of them should ratify it.

M^r Wilson. As the Const.i.tution stands, the States only which ratify can be bound. We must he said in this case go to the original powers of Society. The House on fire must be extinguished, without a scrupulous regard to ordinary rights.

M^r Butler was in favor of "nine." He revolted at the idea, that one or two States should restrain the rest from consulting their safety.

M^r Carrol moved to fill the blank with "the thirteen," unanimity being necessary to dissolve the existing confederacy which had been unanimously established.

M^r King thought this amend^t necessary, otherwise as the Const.i.tution now stands it will operate on the whole though ratified by a part only.

Adjourned.