The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which framed the Constitution of USA Volume II Part 12

The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which framed the Constitution of USA Volume II Part 12

"Under every view of the subject, it seems indispensable that the Ma.s.s of Citizens should not be without a voice, in making the laws which they are to obey, & in chusing the Magistrates who are to administer them, and if the only alternative be between an equal & universal right of suffrage for each branch of the Gov^t and a confinement of the _entire_ right to a part of the Citizens, it is better that those having the greater interest at stake namely that of property & persons both, should be deprived of half their share in the Gov^t than, that those having the lesser interest, that of personal rights only, should be deprived of the whole."--Madison's Note.

Doc^r Franklin. It is of great consequence that we sh^d not depress the virtue & public spirit of our common people; of which they displayed a great deal during the war, and which contributed princ.i.p.ally to the favorable issue of it. He related the honorable refusal of the American seamen who were carried in great numbers into the British Prisons during the war, to redeem themselves from misery or to seek their fortunes, by entering on board the Ships of the Enemies to their Country; contrasting their patriotism with a contemporary instance in which the British seamen made prisoners by the Americans, readily entered on the ships of the latter on being promised a share of the prizes that might be made out of their own Country. This proceeded he said from the different manner in which the common people were treated in America & G. Britain.

He did not think that the elected had any right in any case to narrow the privileges of the electors. He quoted as arbitrary the British Statute setting forth the danger of tumultuous meetings, and under that pretext narrowing the right of suffrage to persons having freeholds of a certain value; observing that this Statute was soon followed by another under the succeeding Parliam^t subjecting the people who had no votes to peculiar labors & hardships. He was persuaded also that such a restriction as was proposed would give great uneasiness in the populous States. The sons of a substantial farmer, not being themselves freeholders, would not be pleased at being disfranchised, and there are a great many persons of that description.

M^r Mercer. The Const.i.tution is objectionable in many points, but in none more than the present. He objected to the footing on which the qualification was put, but particularly to the _mode of election_ by the people. The people can not know & judge of the characters of Candidates.

The worse possible choice will be made. He quoted the case of the Senate in Virg^a as an example in point. The people in Towns can unite their votes in favor of one favorite; & by that means always prevail over the people of the Country, who being dispersed will scatter their votes among a variety of candidates.

M^r Rutlidge thought the idea of restraining the right of suffrage to the freeholders a very unadvised one. It would create division among the people & make enemies of all those who should be excluded.

On the question for striking out as moved by M^r Gov^r Morris, from the word "qualifications" to the end of the III article

N. H. no. Ma.s.s. no. C^t no. P^a no. Del. ay. M^d div^d. V^a no.

N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. not pres^t.

Adjourned

WEDNESDAY AUG^{ST} 8. IN CONVENTION

Art: IV. sect. 1.--M^r Mercer expressed his dislike of the whole plan, and his opinion that it never could succeed.

M^r Ghorum. he had never seen any inconveniency from allowing such as were not freeholders to vote, though it had long been tried. The elections in Phil^a, N. York & Boston where the Merchants & Mechanics vote are at least as good as those made by freeholders only. The case in England was not accurately stated yesterday (by M^r Madison). The Cities & large towns are not the seat of Crown influence & corruption. These prevail in the Boroughs, and not on account of the right which those who are not freeholders have to vote, but of the smallness of the number who vote. The people have been long accustomed to this right in various parts of America, and will never allow it to be abridged. We must consult their rooted prejudices if we expect their concurrence in our propositions.

M^r Mercer did not object so much to an election by the people at large including such as were not freeholders, as to their being left to make their choice without any guidance. He hinted that Candidates ought to be nominated by the State Legislatures.

On the question for agreeing to Art: IV--Sect, 1 it pa.s.s^d nem. con.

Art. IV. Sect. 2. taken up.

Col. Mason was for opening a wide door for emigrants; but did not chuse to let foreigners and adventurers make laws for us & govern us.

Citizenship for three years was not enough for ensuring that local knowledge which ought to be possessed by the Representative. This was the princ.i.p.al ground of his objection to so short a term. It might also happen that a rich foreign Nation, for example Great Britain, might send over her tools who might bribe their way into the Legislature for insidious purposes. He moved that "seven" years instead of "three," be inserted.

M^r Gov^r Morris 2^{ded} the Motion, & on the question, all the States agreed to it except Connecticut.

M^r Sherman moved to strike out the word "resident" and insert "inhabitant," as less liable to misconstruction.

M^r Madison 2^{ded} the motion, both were vague, but the latter least so in common acceptation, and would not exclude persons absent occasionally for a considerable time on public or private business. Great disputes had been raised in Virg^a concerning the meaning of residence as a qualification of Representatives which were determined more according to the affection or dislike to the man in question, than to any fixt interpretation of the word.

M^r Wilson preferred "inhabitant."

M^r Gov^r Morris, was opposed to both and for requiring nothing more than a freehold. He quoted great disputes in N. York occasioned by these terms, which were decided by the arbitrary will of the majority. Such a regulation is not necessary. People rarely chuse a nonresident--It is improper as in the 1^{st} branch, _the people at large_, not the _States_, are represented.

M^r Rutlidge urged & moved, that a residence of 7 years sh^d be required in the State Wherein the Member sh^d be elected. An emigrant from N.

England to S. C. or Georgia would know little of its affairs and could not be supposed to acquire a thorough knowledge in less time.

M^r Read reminded him that we were now forming a _Nat^l_ Gov^t and such a regulation would correspond little with the idea that we were one people.

M^r Wilson. enforced the same consideration.

M^r Madison suggested the case of new States in the West, which could have perhaps no representation on that plan.

M^r Mercer. Such a regulation would present a greater alienship among the States than existed under the old federal system. It would interweave local prejudices & State distinctions in the very Const.i.tution which is meant to cure them. He mentioned instances of violent disputes raised in Maryland concerning the term "residence."

M^r Elseworth thought seven years of residence was by far too long a term: but that some fixt term of previous residence would be proper. He thought one year would be sufficient, but seemed to have no objection to three years.

M^r d.i.c.kinson proposed that it should read "inhabitant actually resident for ---- years." This would render the meaning less indeterminate.

M^r Wilson. If a short term should be inserted in the blank, so strict an expression might be construed to exclude the members of the Legislature, who could not be said to be actual residents in their States whilst at the Seat of the Gen^l Government.

M^r Mercer. It would certainly exclude men, who had once been inhabitants, and returning from residence elsewhere to resettle in their original State; although a want of the necessary knowledge could not in such cases be presumed.

M^r Mason thought 7 years too long, but would never agree to part with the principle. It is a valuable principle. He thought it a defect in the plan that the Representatives would be too few to bring with them all the local knowledge necessary. If residence be not required, Rich men of neighbouring States, may employ with success the means of corruption in some particular district and thereby get into the public Councils after having failed in their own State. This is the practice in the boroughs of England.

On the question for postponing in order to consider M^r d.i.c.kinsons motion

N. H. no. Ma.s.s. no. C^t no. N. J. no. P^a no. Del. no. M^d ay.

V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

On the question for inserting "inhabitant" in place of "resident"--ag^d to nem. con.

M^r Elseworth & Col. Mason move to insert "one year" for previous inhabitancy.

M^r Williamson liked the Report as it stood. He thought "resident" a good eno' term. He was ag^{st} requiring any period of previous residence. New residents if elected will be most zealous to conform to the will of their const.i.tuents, as their conduct will be watched with a more jealous eye.

M^r Butler & M^r Rutlidge moved "three years" instead of "one year" for previous inhabitancy.

On the question for 3 years,

N. H. no. Ma.s.s. no. C^t no. N. J. no. P^a no. Del. no. M^d no.

V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

On the question for "1 year"

N. H. no.--Ma.s.s. no. C^t no. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. no.

M^d div^d. V^a no. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

Art. IV. Sect. 2. as amended in manner preceding, was agreed to nem.

con.

Art. IV. Sect. 3. taken up.

Gen^l Pinkney & M^r Pinkney moved that the number of Representatives allotted to S. Carol^a be "six." On the question,

N. H. no. Ma.s.s. no. C^t no. N. J. no. P^a no. Delaware ay.

M^d no. V^a no. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

The 3. Sect of Art: IV, was then agreed to.