The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which framed the Constitution of USA Volume II Part 58

The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which framed the Constitution of USA Volume II Part 58

M^r Gorham & M^r King said that the motion, if agreed to, would have a mischievous tendency. The people are accustomed & attached to that mode of appointing Treasurers, and the innovation will multiply objections to the system.

M^r Gov^r Morris remarked that if the Treasurer be not appointed by the Legislature, he will be more narrowly watched, and more readily impeached.

M^r Sherman. As the two Houses appropriate money, it is best for them to appoint the officer who is to keep it; and to appoint him as they make the appropriation, not by joint but several votes.

Gen^l Pinkney. The Treasurer is appointed by joint ballot in South Carolina. The consequence is that bad appointments are made, and the Legislature will not listen to the faults of their own officer.

On the motion to strike out

N. H. ay. Mas. no. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. ay. M^d ay.

V^a no. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

Art I sect. 8. "but all such duties imposts & excises, shall be uniform throughout the U. S." were unanimously annexed to the power of taxation.

To define & punish piracies and felonies on the high seas, and "punish"

offences against the law of nations.

M^r Gov^r Morris moved to strike out "punish" before the words "offences ag^{st} the law of nations," so as to let these be _definable_ as well as punishable, by virtue of the preceding member of the sentence.

M^r Wilson hoped the alteration would by no means be made. To pretend to _define_ the law of nations which depended on the authority of all the civilized nations of the world, would have a look of arrogance, that would make us ridiculous.

M^r Gov^r Morris. The word _define_ is proper when applied to _offences_ in this case; the law of nations being often too vague and deficient to be a rule.

On the question to strike out the word "punish" it pa.s.sed in the affirmative

N. H. ay. Mas. no. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. ay. M^d no.

V^a no. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. no.

Doc^r Franklin moved[97] to add after the words "post roads" Art. I.

Sect. 8. "a power to provide for cutting ca.n.a.ls where deemed necessary."

[97] This motion by D^r Franklin not stated in the printed Journal, as are some other motions.--Madison's Note.

Wilson 2^{ded} the motion.

M^r Sherman objected. The expence in such cases will fall on the U.

States, and the benefit accrue to the places where the ca.n.a.ls may be cut.

M^r Wilson. Instead of being an expence to the U. S. they may be made a source of revenue.

M^r Madison suggested an enlargement of the motion into a power "to grant charters of incorporation where the interest of the U. S. might require & the legislative provisions of individual States may be incompetent." His primary object was however to secure an easy communication between the States which the free intercourse now to be opened, seemed to call for. The political obstacles being removed, a removal of the natural ones as far as possible ought to follow. M^r Randolph 2^{ded} the proposition.

M^r King thought the power unnecessary.

M^r Wilson. It is necessary to prevent _a State_ from obstructing the _general_ welfare.

M^r King. The States will be prejudiced and divided into parties by it.

In Philad^a & New York. It will be referred to the establishment of a Bank, which has been a subject of contention in those Cities. In other places it will be referred to mercantile monopolies.

M^r Wilson mentioned the importance of facilitating by ca.n.a.ls, the communication with the Western settlements. As to Banks he did not think with M^r King that the power in that point of view would excite the prejudices & parties apprehended. As to mercantile monopolies they are already included in the power to regulate trade.

Col: Mason was for limiting the power to the single case of Ca.n.a.ls. He was afraid of monopolies of every sort, which he did not think were by any means already implied by the Const.i.tution as supposed by M^r Wilson.

The motion being so modified as to admit a distinct question specifying & limited to the case of ca.n.a.ls,

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t no. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. no. M^d no.

V^a ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. ay.

The other part fell of course, as including the power rejected.

M^r Madison & M^r Pinkney then moved to insert in the list of powers vested in Congress a power--"to establish an University, in which no preferences or distinctions should be allowed on account of Religion."

M^r Wilson supported the motion.

M^r Gov^r Morris. It is not necessary. The exclusive power at the Seat of Government, will reach the object.

On the question

N. H. no. Mas. no. Con^t div^d. D^r Johnson ay. M^r Sherman no.

N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. no. M^d no. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay.

Geo. no.

Col: Mason, being sensible that an absolute prohibition of standing armies in time of peace might be unsafe, and wishing at the same time to insert something pointing out and guarding against the danger of them, moved to preface the clause (Art. 1 sect. 8) "To provide for organizing, arming and disciplining the militia &c." with the words "And that the liberties of the people may be better secured against the danger of standing armies in time of peace." M^r Randolph 2^{ded} the motion.

M^r Madison was in favor of it. It did not restrain Congress from establishing a military force in time of peace if found necessary; and as armies in time of peace are allowed on all hands to be an evil, it is well to discountenance them by the Const.i.tution, as far as will consist with the essential power of the Gov^t on that head.

M^r Gov^r Morris opposed the motion as setting a dishonorable mark of distinction on the military cla.s.s of Citizens.

M^r Pinkney & M^r Bedford concurred in the opposition.

On the question

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t no. N. J. no. P^a no. Mar^d no. V^a ay.

N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. ay.

Col: Mason moved to strike out from the clause (art. 1 sect 9.) "no bill of attainder nor any ex post facto law shall be pa.s.sed" the words "nor any ex post facto law." He thought it not sufficiently clear that the prohibition meant by this phrase was limited to cases of a criminal nature, and no Legislature ever did or can altogether avoid them in Civil cases.

M^r Gerry 2^{ded} the motion but with a view to extend the prohibition to "civil cases," which he thought ought to be done.

On the question; all the States were--no.

M^r Pinkney & M^r Gerry, moved to insert a declaration "that the liberty of the Press should be inviolably observed."

M^r Sherman. It is unnecessary. The power of Congress does not extend to the Press. On the question, it pa.s.sed in the negative

N. H.[98] no. Mas. ay. C^t no. N. J. no. P^a no. Del. no.

M^d ay. V^a ay. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. no.

[98] In the printed Journal N. Hampshire ay.--Madison's Note.