The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which framed the Constitution of USA Volume II Part 57

The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which framed the Constitution of USA Volume II Part 57

[94] This motion, & appointment of the Co[~m]ittee, not in the printed Journal. No report was made by the Com^e--Madison's Note.

Col: Mason renewed his proposition of yesterday on the subject of inspection laws, with an additional clause giving to Congress a controul over them in case of abuse--as follows:

"Provided that no State shall be restrained from imposing the usual duties on produce exported from such State, for the sole purpose of defraying the charges of inspecting, packing, storing, and indemnifying the losses on such produce, while in the custody of public officers: but all such regulations shall in case of abuse, be subject to the revision and controul of Congress."

There was no debate & on the question

N. H. ay. Mas. ay. C^t ay. P^a no. Del. no. M^d ay. V^a ay. N.

C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. ay.

The Report from the committee of stile & arrangement, was taken up, in order to be compared with the articles of the plan as agreed to by the House & referred to the Committee, and to receive the final corrections and sanction of the Convention.

Art: 1, sect. 2. On motion of M^r Randolph the word "servitude" was struck out, and "service" unanimously[95] inserted, the former being thought to express the condition of slaves, & the latter the obligations of free persons.

[95] See page 372 of the printed Journal.--Madison's Note.

M^r d.i.c.kenson & M^r Wilson moved to strike out, "and direct taxes," from sect. 2, art. 1, as improperly placed in a clause relating merely to the Const.i.tution of the House of Representatives.

M^r Gov^r Morris. The insertion here was in consequence of what had pa.s.sed on this point; in order to exclude the appearance of counting the negroes in _the Representation_. The including of them may now be referred to the object of direct taxes, and incidentally only to that of Representation.

On the motion to strike out "and direct taxes" from this place

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t no. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. ay. M^d ay.

V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

Art. 1, sect. 7.--"if any bill shall not be returned by the president within ten days (sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him &c."

M^r Madison moved to insert between "after" and "it" in sect. 7, Art. 1 the words "the day on which," in order to prevent a question whether the day on which the bill be presented ought to be counted or not as one of the ten days.

M^r Randolph 2^{ded} the motion.

M^r Governe^r Morris. The amendment is unnecessary. The law knows no fractions of days.

A number of members being very impatient & calling for the question

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t no. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. no. M^d ay.

V^a ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.--

Doc^r Johnson made a further report from the Committee of stile &c. of the following resolutions to be subst.i.tuted for 22 & 23 articles.

"Resolved that the preceding Const.i.tution be laid before the U.

States in Congress a.s.sembled, and that it is the opinion of this Convention, that it should afterwards be submitted to a Convention of Delegates chosen in each State by the people thereof, under the recommendation of its Legislature, for their a.s.sent & ratification; & that each Convention a.s.senting & ratifying the same should give notice thereof to the U. S. in Cong^s a.s.sembled.

"Resolved that it is the opinion of this Convention that as soon as the Conventions of nine States, shall have ratified this Const.i.tution, the U. S. in Cong^s a.s.sembled should fix a day on which electors should be appointed by the States which shall have ratified the same; and a day on which the Electors should a.s.semble to vote for the President; and the time and place for commencing proceedings under this Const.i.tution--That after such publication the Electors should be appointed, and the Senators and Representatives elected: That the Electors should meet on the day fixed for the election of the President, and should transmit their votes certified signed, sealed and directed, as the Const.i.tution requires, to the Secretary of the U. States in Cong^s a.s.sembled: that the Senators and Representatives should convene at the time & place a.s.signed: that the Senators should appoint a President for the sole purpose of receiving, opening, and counting the votes for President, and that after he shall be chosen, the Congress, together with the President should without delay proceed to execute this Const.i.tution."

Adjourned.

FRIDAY SEP^R 14^{TH}. 1787. IN CONVENTION

The Report of the Committee of stile & arrangement being resumed,

M^r Williamson moved to reconsider in order to increase the number of Representatives fixed for the first Legislature. His purpose was to make an addition of one half generally to the number allotted to the respective States; and to allow two to the smallest States.

On this motion

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t no. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d ay.

V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. no.

Art. I. sect. 3. the words "by lot"[96] were struck out nem: con: on motion of M^r Madison, that some rule might prevail in the rotation that would prevent both the members from the same State from going out at the same time.

[96] "By lot" had been reinstated from the Report of five Aug.

6. as a correction of the printed report by the Com^e of stile & arrangement.--Madison's Note.

"Ex officio" struck out of the same section as superfluous; nem: con; and "or affirmation" after "oath" inserted also unanimously.

M^r Rutlidge and M^r Gov^r Morris moved "that persons impeached be suspended from their office until they be tried and acquitted."

M^r Madison. The President is made too dependent already on the Legislature by the power of one branch to try him in consequence of an impeachment by the other. This intermediate suspension, will put him in the power of one branch only. They can at any moment, in order to make way for the functions of another who will be more favorable to their views, vote a temporary removal of the existing magistrate.

M^r King concurred in the opposition to the amendment.

On the question to agree to it

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t ay. N. J. no. P^a no. Del.no. M^d no. V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

Art. I. sect. 4. "except as to the places of choosing Senators" was added nem: con: to the end of the first clause, in order to exempt the seats of Gov^t in the States from the power of Congress.

Art. I. Sect. 5. "Each House shall keep a Journal of its proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such parts as may in their judgment require secrecy."

Col: Mason & M^r Gerry moved to insert after the word "parts," the words "of the proceedings of the Senate" so as to require publication of all the proceedings of the House of Representatives.

It was intimated on the other side that cases might arise where secrecy might be necessary in both Houses. Measures preparatory to a declaration of war in which the House of Rep^s was to concur, were instanced.

On the question, it pa.s.sed in the negative.

N. H. no. (Rh. I. abs.) Mas. no. Con: no,(N. Y. abs.) N. J. no.

Pen. ay. Del. no. Mary. ay. Virg. no. N. C. ay. S. C. div^d.

Geor. no.

M^r Baldwin observed that the clause, Art. I. Sect. 6. declaring that no member of Cong^s "during the time for which he was elected, shall be appointed to any Civil office under the authority of the U. S. which shall have been created, or the emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time," would not extend to offices _created by the Const.i.tution_; and the salaries of which would be created, _not increased_ by Cong^s at their first session. The members of the first Cong^s consequently might evade the disqualification in this instance.--He was neither seconded nor opposed; nor did any thing further pa.s.s on the subject.

Art. I. Sect. 8. The Congress "may by joint ballot appoint a Treasurer"

M^r Rutlidge moved to strike out this power, and let the Treasurer be appointed in the same manner with other officers.