The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which framed the Constitution of USA Volume II Part 48

The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which framed the Constitution of USA Volume II Part 48

M^r Sherman suggested the "House of Rep^s" as preferable to the Legislature, and moved accordingly,

To strike out the words "The Senate shall immediately choose &c." and insert "The House of Representatives shall immediately choose by ballot one of them for President, the members from each State having one vote."

Col: Mason liked the latter mode best as lessening the aristocratic influence of the Senate.

On the motion of M^r Sherman

N. H. ay. Mas. ay. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. no. M^d ay.

V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

M^r Gov^r Morris suggested the idea of providing that in all cases, the President in office, should not be one of the five Candidates; but be only re-eligible in case a majority of the electors should vote for him.

(This was another expedient for rendering the President independent of the Legislative body for his continuance in office.)

M^r Madison remarked that as a majority of members w^d make a quorum in the H. of Rep^s it would follow from the amendment of M^r Sherman giving the election to a majority of States, that the President might be elected by two States only, Virg^a & Pen^a which have 18 members, if these States alone should be present.

On a motion that the eventual election of Presid^t in case of _an equality_ of the votes of the electors be referred to the House of Rep^s

N. H. ay. Mas. ay. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. no. M^d no. V^a ay.

N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

M^r King moved to add to the amendment of M^r Sherman "But a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two thirds of the States, and also of a majority of the whole number of the House of Representatives."

Col: Mason liked it as obviating the remark of M^r Madison--The motion as far as "States" inclusive was ag^d to. On the residue to wit, "and also of a majority of the whole number of the House of Reps^s." it pa.s.sed in the negative.

N. H. no. Mas. ay. C^t ay. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. no. M^d no.

V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. no.

The Report relating to the appointment of the Executive stands as amended, as follows.

"He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and together with the vice-President, chosen for the same term, be elected in the following manner.

Each State shall appoint in such manner as its Legislature may direct, a number of electors equal to the whole number of Senators and members of the House of Representatives, to which the State may be ent.i.tled in the Legislature:

But no person shall be appointed an Elector who is a member of the Legislature of the U. S. or who holds any office of profit or trust under the U. S.

The Electors shall meet in their respective States and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same State with themselves; and they shall make a list of all the persons voted for, and of the number of votes for each, which list they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the General Government, directed to the President of the Senate.

The President of the Senate shall in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives open all the certificates & the votes shall then be counted.

The person having the greatest number of votes shall be the President (if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed) and if there be more than one who have such majority, and have an equal number of votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by ballot one of them for President, the Representation from each State having one vote. But if no person have a majority, then from the five highest on the list, the House of Representatives shall in like manner choose by ballot the President. In the choice of a President by the House of Representatives, a Quorum shall consist of a member or members from two thirds of the States, ([56]and the concurrence of a majority of all the States shall be necessary to such choice.)--And in every case after the choice of the President, the person having the greatest number of votes of the Electors shall be the vice-president: But, if there should remain two or more who have equal votes, the Senate shall choose from them the vice-President.[57]

[56] NOTE.--This clause was not inserted on this day, but on the 7^{th}. of Sep^r--See Friday the 7^{th}.--Madison's Note.

[57] September 6 Madison wrote to Jefferson (cipher represented by italics): "... As the Convention will shortly rise I should feel little scruple in disclosing what will be public here, before it could reach you, were it practicable for me to guard by Cypher against an intermediate discovery. But I am deprived of this resource by the shortness of the interval between the receipt of your letter of June 20 and the date of this. This is the first day which has been free from Committee service, both before & after the hours of the House, and the last that is allowed me by the time advertised for the sailing of the packet.

"The Convention consists now as it has generally done of Eleven States. There has been no intermission of its Sessions since a house was formed, except an interval of about ten days allowed a Committee appointed to detail the general propositions agreed on in the House. The term of its dissolution cannot be more than one or two weeks distant. A Gover^{mt} will probably be submitted to the _people of_ the _States_, consisting of a _President_, _cloathed_ with _Executive power_; a _Senate chosen_ by the _Legislatures_, and another _House chosen_ by the _people of the States_, jointly _possessing_ the _Legislative_ power; and a regular _Judiciary_ establishment. The mode of const.i.tuting the _Executive_ is among the few points not yet finally settled.

The _Senate_ will consist of two _members_ from each _State_, and _appointed s.e.xennially_. The other, of _members_, _appointed biennially_ by the _people of the States_, in proportion to their number. The Legislative power will _extend to taxation_, trade, and sundry other general matters. The powers of Congress will be _distributed_, according to their _nature_, _among the several departments_. The States will be _restricted from paper money_ and in a _few other instances_. These are _the outlines_. The extent of them may perhaps surprize you. I hazard an opinion nevertheless that the _plan_, _should it be adopted_, will neither effectually _answer_ its _national object_, nor prevent the local _mischiefs_ which everywhere _excite disgusts_ ag^{st} the _State Governments_. The grounds of this opinion will be the subject of a future letter.

"I have written to a friend in Cong^s intimating in a covert manner the necessity of deciding & notifying the intentions of Cong^s with regard to their foreign Ministers after May next, and have dropped a hint on the communications of Dumas.

"Congress have taken some measures for disposing of the public land, and have actually sold a considerable tract.

Another bargain I learn is on foot for a further sale.

"Nothing can exceed the universal anxiety for the event of the meeting here. Reports and conjectures abound concerning the nature of the plan which is to be proposed. The public however is certainly in the dark with regard to it. The Convention is equally in the dark as to the reception w^{ch} may be given to it on its publication. All the prepossessions are on the right side, but it may well be expected that certain characters will wage war against any reform whatever. My own idea is that the public mind will now or in a very little time receive anything that promises stability to the public Councils & security to private rights, and that no regard ought to be had to local prejudices or temporary considerations. If the present moment be lost, it is hard to say what may be our fate.

"Our information from Virginia is far from being agreeable.

In many parts of the Country the drought has been extremely injurious to the Corn. I fear, tho' I have no certain information, that Orange & Albemarle share in the distress.

The people also are said to be generally discontented. A paper emission is again a topic among them, so is an instalment of all debts in some places and the making property a tender in others. The taxes are another source of discontent. The weight of them is complained of, and the abuses in collecting them still more so. In several Counties the prisons & Court Houses & Clerks' offices have been wilfully burnt. In Green Briar the course of Justice has been mutinously stopped, and a.s.sociations entered into ag^{st} the payment of taxes. No other County has yet followed the example. The approaching meeting of the a.s.sembly will probably allay the discontents on one side by measures which will excite them on another.

"Mr. Wythe has never returned to us. His lady whose illness carried him away, died some time after he got home. The other deaths, in Virg^a are Col. A. Cary and a few days ago, Mrs. Harrison, wife of Benj^n Harrison, Jun^r, & sister of J. F. Mercer. Wishing you all happiness.

"I remain, Dear sir, Y^{rs} affect^{ly}.

"Give my best wishes to Mazzei. I have rec^d his letter & book and will write by the next packet to him. Dorhman is still in V^a Cong^s have done nothing for him in his affair.

I am not sure that 9 St^s have been a.s.sembled of late. At present, it is doubtful whether there are seven."--Mad. MSS.

The Legislature may determine the time of choosing the Electors, and of their giving their votes; and the manner of certifying and transmitting their votes--But the election shall be on the same day through-out the U. States."

Adjourned.

FRIDAY SEP^R 7[58] 1787. IN CONVENTION

[58] The following letter was received on this day from Jonas Phillips, a Jew in Philadelphia:

"SIRES

"With leave and submission I address myself To those in whome there is wisdom understanding and knowledge. They are the honourable personages appointed and Made overseers of a part of the terrestrial globe of the Earth, Namely the 13 united states of america in Convention a.s.sembled, the Lord preserve them amen--

"I the subscriber being one of the people called Jews of the City of Philadelphia, a people scattered and despersed among all nations do behold with Concern that among the laws in the Const.i.tution of Pennsylvania their is a Clause Sect. 10 to viz--I do belive in one G.o.d the Creature and governour of the universe the Rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked--and I do acknowledge the scriptures of the old and New testement to be given by a devine inspiration--to swear and believe that the new testement was given by devine inspiration is absolutly against the Religious principle of a Jew and is against his Conscience to take any such oath--By the above law a Jew is deprived of holding any publick office or place of Government which is a Contridectory to the bill of Right Sect 2. viz

"That all men have a natural and unalienable Right To worship almighty G.o.d according to the dectates of their own Conscience and understanding, and that no man aught or of Right can be compelled to attend any Religious Worship or Erect or support any place of worship or Maintain any minister contrary to or against his own free will and Consent nor Can any man who acknowledges the being of a G.o.d be Justly deprived or abridged of any Civil Right as a Citizen on account of his Religious sentiments or peculiar mode of Religious Worship, and that no authority Can or aught to be vested in or a.s.sumed by any power what ever that shall in any Case interfere or in any manner Controul the Right of Conscience in the free Exercise of Religious Worship--

"It is well known among all the Citizens of the 13 united States that the Jews have been true and faithfull whigs, and during the late Contest with England they have been foremost in aiding and a.s.sisting the States with their lifes and fortunes, they have supported the Cause, have bravely faught and bleed for liberty which they Can not Enjoy--

Therefore if the honourable Convention shall in ther Wisdom think fit and alter the said oath and leave out the words to viz--and I do acknowledge the scripture of the new testeraent to be given by devine inspiration then the Israeletes will think them self happy to live under a government where all Religious societys are on an Eaquel footing--I solecet this favour for my self my Childreen and posterity and for the benefit of all the Israeletes through the 13 united States of america.

"My prayers is unto the Lord. May the people of this States Rise up as a great and young lion, May they prevail against their Enemies, May the degrees of honour of his Excellencey the president of the Convention George Washington, be Extollet and Raise up. May Every one speak of his glorious Exploits. May G.o.d prolong his days among us in this land of Liberty--May he lead the armies against his Enemys as he has done hereuntofore--May G.o.d Extend peace unto the united States--May they get up to the highest Prosperetys--May G.o.d Extend peace to them and their Seed after them so long as the Sun and moon Endureth--and may the almighty G.o.d of our father Abraham Isaac and Jacob endue this n.o.ble a.s.sembly with wisdom Judgement and unamity in their Councells, and may they have the Satisfaction to see that their present toil and labour for the wellfair of the united States may be approved of, Through all the world and perticular by the united States of america is the ardent prayer of Sires.

"Your Most devoted obe^d Servant

"JONAS PHILLIPS

"Philadelphia 24^{th} Ellul 5547 or Sep^r 7^{th}.

1787"--Const. MSS.