The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which framed the Constitution of USA Volume II Part 22

The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which framed the Constitution of USA Volume II Part 22

M^r Elseworth was ag^{st} Taxing exports; but thought the prohibition stood in the most proper place, and was ag^{st} deranging the order reported by the Committee.

M^r Wilson was decidedly ag^{st} prohibiting general taxes on exports.

He dwelt on the injustice and impolicy of leaving N. Jersey Connecticut &c. any longer subject to the exactions of their commercial neighbours.

M^r Gerry thought the legislature could not be trusted with such a power. It might ruin the Country. It might be exercised partially, raising one and depressing another part of it.

M^r Gov^r Morris. However the legislative power may be formed, it will if disposed be able to ruin the Country. He considered the taxing of exports to be in many cases highly politic. Virginia has found her account in taxing Tobacco. All Countries having peculiar articles tax the exportation of them; as France her wines and brandies. A tax here on lumber, would fall on the W. Indies & punish their restrictions on our trade. The same is true of live stock and in some degree of flour. In case of a dearth in the West Indies, we may extort what we please. Taxes on exports are a necessary source of revenue. For a long time the people of America will not have money to pay direct taxes. Seize and sell their effects and you push them into Revolts.

M^r Mercer was strenuous against giving Congress power to tax exports.

Such taxes are impolitic, as encouraging the raising of articles not meant for exportation. The States had now a right where their situation permitted, to tax both the imports and the exports of their uncommercial neighbours. It was enough for them to sacrifice one half of it. It had been said the Southern States had most need of naval protection. The reverse was the case. Were it not for promoting the carrying trade of the North^n States, the South^n States could let the trade go into foreign bottoms, where it would not need our protection. Virginia by taxing her tobacco had given an advantage to that of Maryland.

M^r Sherman. To examine and compare the States in relation to imports and exports will be opening a boundless field. He thought the matter had been adjusted, and that imports were to be subject, and exports not, to be taxed. He thought it wrong to tax exports except it might be such articles as ought not to be exported. The complexity of the business in America would render an equal tax on exports impracticable. The oppression of the uncommercial States was guarded ag^{st} by the power to regulate trade between the States. As to compelling foreigners, that might be done by regulating trade in general. The Government would not be trusted with such a power. Objections are most likely to be excited by considerations relating to taxes & money. A power to tax exports would shipwreck the whole.

M^r Carrol was surprised that any objection should be made to an exception of exports from the power of taxation.

It was finally agreed that the question concerning exports sh^d lie over for the place in which the exception stood in the report: Mary^d alone voting ag^{st} it.

Sect: 1. (Art. VII) agreed to; M^r Gerry alone answering, no.

Clause for regulating commerce with foreign nations &c. agreed to nem. con.

for coining money. ag^d to nem. con.

for regulating foreign coin. d^o d^o.

for fixing standard of weights & measures. d^o d^o.

"To establish post-offices," M^r Gerry moved to add, and post-roads. M^r Mercer 2^{ded}. & on question

N.H. no. Ma.s.s. ay. C^t no. N.J. no. Pen^a no. Del. ay. M^d ay.

V^a ay. N.C. no. S.C. ay. Geo. ay.

M^r Gov^r Morris moved to strike out "and emit bills on the credit of the U. States"--If the United States had credit such bills would be unnecessary; if they had not, unjust & useless.

M^r Butler, 2^{ds} the motion.

M^r Madison, will it not be sufficient to prohibit the making them a _tender_? This will remove the temptation to emit them with unjust views. And promissory notes in that shape may in some emergencies be best.

M^r Gov^r Morris, striking out the words will leave room still for notes of a _responsible_ minister which will do all the good without the mischief. The Monied interest will oppose the plan of Government, if paper emissions be not prohibited.

M^r Ghorum was for striking out, without inserting any prohibition, if the words stand they may suggest and lead to the measure.

Col. Mason had doubts on the subject. Cong^s he thought would not have the power unless it were expressed. Though he had a mortal hatred to paper money, yet as he could not forsee all emergencies, he was unwilling to tie the hands of the Legislature. He observed that the late war could not have been carried on, had such a prohibition existed.

Mr. Ghorum. The power as far as it will be necessary or safe, is involved in that of borrowing.

M^r Mercer was a friend to paper money, though in the present state & temper of America, he should neither propose nor approve of such a measure. He was consequently opposed to a prohibition of it altogether.

It will stamp suspicion on the Government to deny it a discretion on this point. It was impolitic also to excite the opposition of all those who were friends to paper money. The people of property would be sure to be on the side of the plan, and it was impolitic to purchase their further attachment with the loss of the opposite cla.s.s of Citizens.

M^r Elseworth thought this a favorable moment to shut and bar the door against paper money. The mischiefs of the various experiments which had been made, were now fresh in the public mind and had excited the disgust of all the respectable part of America. By withholding the power from the new Govern^t more friends of influence would be gained to it than by almost any thing else. Paper money can in no case be necessary. Give the Government credit, and other resources will offer. The power may do harm, never good.

M^r Randolph, notwithstanding his antipathy to paper money, could not agree to strike out the words, as he could not foresee all the occasions that might arise.

M^r Wilson. It will have a most salutary influence on the credit of the U. States to remove the possibility of paper money. This expedient can never succeed whilst its mischiefs are remembered. And as long as it can be resorted to, it will be a bar to other resources.

M^r Butler remarked that paper was a legal tender in no Country in Europe. He was urgent for disarming the Government of such a power.

M^r Mason was still averse to tying the hands of the Legislature _altogether_. If there was no example in Europe as just remarked it might be observed on the other side, that there was none in which the Government was restrained on this head.

M^r Read, thought the words, if not struck out, would be as alarming as the mark of the Beast in Revelations.

M^r Langdon had rather reject the whole plan than retain the three words ("and emit bills").

On the motion for striking out

N.H. ay. Ma.s.s. ay. C^t ay. N.J. no. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d no.

V^a ay.[31] N.C. ay. S.C. ay. Geo. ay.

[31] This vote in the affirmative by Virg^a was occasioned by the acquiescence of M^r Madison who became satisfied that striking out the words would not disable the Gov^t from the use of public notes as far as they could be safe & proper; & would only cut off the pretext for a paper currency and particularly for making the bills a tender either for public or private debts.--Madison's Note.

The clause for borrowing money, agreed to nem. con.

Adj^d.

FRIDAY AUGUST 17. IN CONVENTION

Art. VII. Sect. 1. resumed, on the clause, "to appoint Treasurer by ballot,"

M^r Ghorum moved to insert "joint" before ballot, as more convenient as well as reasonable, than to require the separate concurrence of the Senate.

M^r Pinkney 2^{ds} the motion. M^r Sherman opposed it as favoring the larger States.

M^r Read moved to strike out the clause, leaving the appointment of the Treasurer as of other officers to the Executive. The Legislature was an improper body for appointments. Those of the State legislatures were a proof of it. The Executive being responsible would make a good choice.

M^r Mercer 2^{ds} the motion of M^r Read.

On the motion for inserting the word "joint" before ballot

N.H. ay. Ma.s.s. ay. C^t no. N.J. no. P^a ay. M^d no. V^a ay.

N.C. ay. S.C. ay. Geo. ay.

Col. Mason in opposition to M^r Read's motion desired it might be considered to whom the money would belong; if to the people, the legislature representing the people ought to appoint the keepers of it.

On striking out the clause as amended by inserting "Joint"

N.H. no. Ma.s.s. no. C^t no. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d ay. V^a no.

N.C. no. S.C. ay. Geo. no.